I ate at the much-talked-about Spuds Pizza in Berkeley a couple weeks back. I had an experience that just floored me...you can read the whole story here...
(If the cut and paste thing doesn't work it's on the Berekely Tribe)
sanfrancisco.tribe.net/thread...8984692
But the key anti-oppression piece:
After getting our order wrong a few times, as the waiter handed me food, he said he could tell I was Jewish because I made him feel guilty for getting the order wrong. After that comment, you can bet that I wasn't about to go up and ask him for the missing breadsticks.
What shocked me was that this guy had no idea he was perpetuating negative anti-Jewish stereotypes. "Yeah, I thought you must be Jewish. You really got the guilt thing going there." I was floored. Then he proceeded to tell me how he worked at a Jewish resort one summer as a teenager and so he knows Jewish people.
I don't care whether one calls it racism, anti-seminitism, or anti-Jewish oppression. Whatever you want to call it, his comments were completely offensive. (Let's tell the Jewish customer that we're perceiving her just like in the sterotypes! The negative stereotypes! Let's tokenize her! Let's take no responsibility for the fact that we got her order wrong 3, no 4 times now, and blame her for our feelings of guilt about that!)
Hey, do I sound upset? Yeah, well I am. I really didn't like his comment one bit.
I'd very much like to support my neighborhood restaurant, but after that experience, I really don't think I'll be likely to walk in there again.
Does this surprise you guys? How would others handle this? What similar experiences have others here had?
(If the cut and paste thing doesn't work it's on the Berekely Tribe)
sanfrancisco.tribe.net/thread...8984692
But the key anti-oppression piece:
After getting our order wrong a few times, as the waiter handed me food, he said he could tell I was Jewish because I made him feel guilty for getting the order wrong. After that comment, you can bet that I wasn't about to go up and ask him for the missing breadsticks.
What shocked me was that this guy had no idea he was perpetuating negative anti-Jewish stereotypes. "Yeah, I thought you must be Jewish. You really got the guilt thing going there." I was floored. Then he proceeded to tell me how he worked at a Jewish resort one summer as a teenager and so he knows Jewish people.
I don't care whether one calls it racism, anti-seminitism, or anti-Jewish oppression. Whatever you want to call it, his comments were completely offensive. (Let's tell the Jewish customer that we're perceiving her just like in the sterotypes! The negative stereotypes! Let's tokenize her! Let's take no responsibility for the fact that we got her order wrong 3, no 4 times now, and blame her for our feelings of guilt about that!)
Hey, do I sound upset? Yeah, well I am. I really didn't like his comment one bit.
I'd very much like to support my neighborhood restaurant, but after that experience, I really don't think I'll be likely to walk in there again.
Does this surprise you guys? How would others handle this? What similar experiences have others here had?
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SF Bay Area
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Unsu...
Re: Rant
Mon, March 28, 2005 - 5:42 AMDon't let the ignorance of one person put you off. Stand up for yourself. Let him know his comments were offensive. If he throws more attitude, speak to a manager. But sometimes people don't *realize* they're being ignorant until you tell them. -
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Re: Rant
Tue, March 29, 2005 - 10:48 AMAnton, thanks for the support.
You know, I generally *do* speak up. Pretty readily and articulately, actually.
In this situation, though, I found that his comment completely silenced me.
First, I speechless because the comment was so unexpected and offensive (offensive not in a PC way, but in a that-really-upsets-me-to-hear-that way).
Secondly, I was in a catch 22. He'd just made a comment about Jews "making" others feel guilty. After that, anything I say about being offended seems like I'm feeding directly into his sterotype.
Amazes me how effectively stereotypes keep us down. He couldn't have said anything to more effectively silence me. -
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thanks for articulating this
Tue, March 29, 2005 - 6:34 PMthat is such a clear way to see how silenced and pushed down people are by stereotypes. thanks so much, Rahel, for sharing that story in such a clear fashion. it's so easy to think what we would have said or done, etc. when not actually confronted with such pointed oppressive behaviour.
when i have told my friends about anti-jewish things that have happened to me or have been said in front of me they are shocked. a lot of people say things like 'that doesn't happen any more'. as though antisemitic/anti-jewish sentiments or behaviour is a thing of the past.
what an awful feeling. i'm so sorry that happened to you. if you want support around approaching a manager or writing a letter, i would be totally open to that and i am sure that you have other great friends in the jewish community that feel the same way.
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Re: Rant
Mon, March 28, 2005 - 10:50 AMI am sooo sorry that you had to have that sort of experience..its really amazing how some forms of oppresive language and ideas is sooo rooted into our language that most people dont evan realize that they are being oppresive, racist, sexist, and anti semetic(sp) i ave told many of my friends about your experince and we have agreed to not eat there or use the stupid little computers just because there free : ) ..I hope that this insadent dosent put a dent on your spirit , and that you are able to gain strength from it..because Let me tell ya i know what its like to deal with people blatant BULLSHIt..but you have to not let that bring you down , these are the moments that we turn our lights on brighter , and tap into that compassionate place(evan if commpassion means telling someone off for there ingnorance) well i am babling , and like I said I am sooo sorry that you went through this ..and I will make a point not to while i am here suport spudz pizza
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Re: Rant
Mon, March 28, 2005 - 1:19 PMStereotypes about some of us are permitted to be overt, rather than covert -- I guess because we're considered white, or white enough.
I think about stereotypes about Italian-Americans, about Polish-Americans (stereotypes much more prevelant where I come from in the midwest than around here, in california), and about "White Trash" that I hear a lot. On one hand, I can joke right back about it. But on the other, I feel defensive and misunderstood. The truth is, a person can't get to know *me* for who I really am -- or even get to know what it means to me to have grown up in an Italian, Polish, poor-rural-white family. They've already got me figured out, because they "know all about" Italians or rural whites.
I don't feel threatened by people's generalizations about those parts of me, like I do when people are saying something about me being queer. But I do feel misunderstood and invaluable.
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Re: Rant
Mon, March 28, 2005 - 5:26 PMif some punk like that said something anti-semitic like that i would punch him out its sad how much of the raceisem is around us. i kicked the crap out of 2 kkk members near me because they were pushing me around at the mall the other day. i dont even think they knew me.
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Re: Rant
Tue, March 29, 2005 - 9:21 AMviolance is really anti the solution..that is feeding into the same dynamics that breeds hate -
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seconded
Tue, March 29, 2005 - 6:40 PMi don't really think that punching someone who is making derogatory comments is going to go very far toward educating that person.
in fact, it will probably make them direct and focus their hatred even more. i believe that anger is a very understandable reaction to the system that is set up to consistently oppress people, but going around taking out your anger on the pawns in the system is counterproductive. if you can figure out a way to channel that anger toward dismantling the system that is making these things happen in the first place...
i think you probably get what i am saying. not that i am a pacifist, even.
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Re: Rant
Fri, April 8, 2005 - 1:12 PMI can totally imagine the way you felt. I'm from the netherlands and all the jewish people who have been in the second world war got a little amount of money from the government to give back the money and life that the government stole from them in WO2.
So a while agoI tell a women I'm jewish and the first thing she asks:
well, did you get a lot of money from our taxes? How much did you get?
Can you believe that?? I didn't know what to say. I couldn't belive she asked it?
Then she fucking goes on about how jewish people don't need the money since they are all rich, blah blah.
Another time I was in a taxi and this guy rants on about jews, how he hates them, and how miserly they are etc. I decided not to tell I'm jewish. At the moment we get to our destination I step out of the car and he tells me how much I have to pay. I just walked away and said I'm not paying since I'm jewish. I know that was not a good solution since I proved him his steriotype bullshit, but at that time I was already so angry.
what do you think would be a good reaction when you get into these kind of things? -
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Re: Rant
Thu, May 5, 2005 - 8:50 PMThe only solution I can think of is to tell the person that not all people of the same ethnicity/religion/etc are the same in all ways, and then go on to give examples of you or people you know to disprove their bullshit. That's easier said than done though. Cuz usually, like you Joran, people end up so angry and offended they're just speechless.
Not too long ago, my white supervisor and I were at work chatting with a customer who was an older black man. He was a nice, talkative gentleman. But at one point, he started telling us about Chinese people at his former job and about how hard-working they were and how Chinese people "work like donkeys." He also went on to talk about church and how black people are always late for everything, including church.
My supervisor was really annoyed by what this man was saying. Although I'm Chinese and probably should have been angry, he just seemed like a nice fellow who didn't understand the offensive nature of his comments. I acknowledge the difference between hearing what he had to say and hearing someone call me "Chinaman" or "Chink," which are intentionally derogatory and condescending terms. I guess all I'm trying to say is that some racist speech comes from people who mean no harm and probably would act differently if they were educated or informed of the harm they're doing. Those who refuse to change their behavior or acknowledge that they're doing harm - now those are the true racists. -
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Re: Rant
Tue, May 10, 2005 - 10:30 AMHey Le, thanks for your post. It's good to get a picture of a similar rasict-but-didn't-intend-to-be encounter.
You so clearly see the good in people. It's quite refreshing!
Rahel
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